Curse

Kuldebar Valiturus · Apr 14, 2007, 11:40 AM // 11:40

I find PvE in Guild Wars to be generally more demanding than many of the other online games I have played. But, more importantly, I find myself becoming a better player as I move through each campaign. I remember feeling some things were impossible for me to accomplish, but it's remarkable what a little skill and experience can do.

Part of this is just the game design: you can't have an 80 slot skill bar, you can't have equipment that makes you god-like and also, ANet does try to make PvE "feel" similar to the PvP experience as much as possible. Also in other games, when you hit max level you can dominate mobs in 60% of the game world, not so in Guild Wars. Most of the world is designed to challenge you at max level.

This is why we aren't locked into the typical standard trio of Tank/Heal/DPS because ANet decided to break that mold. In other games, you can stand safely out of the hate zone and cast magic at a mob while the tank soaks the damage up, in Guild Wars it's not quite that tidy.

Using Heroes in particular makes much of the game easier but there still remains portions of the game where this isn't quite the case. The problems that people run into are the rough spots where using Henchmen or Heroes adds to the challenge instead of making it easier.

Let's just consider these little speed bumps reminders from ANet that Guild Wars is a multiplayer game.

Dubby · Apr 14, 2007, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Gate of Madness, hard you say? Really? I got masters on it easily.

You just need the right strategy, and let me tell you, pug'ing it is not very good strategy. Nightfall gives you heroes for a reason, use them.

Dzagonur Bastion is harder than the Gate of Madness mission.

Getting masters on Vizunah Square is a stroke of luck honestly. I've yet to get masters there, either because of the other team doing something wrong, henchmen getting stuck, or mhenlo & togo freezing and standing still for no reason. Sigh.

the_jos · Apr 14, 2007, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Well, after lying dead on the ground several times in RoT area's, I've adapted my heroes skills and my general play style.
But, I do understand that some people have difficulties with aggro.
I've seen some area's were it was hard to maintain propper aggro.
Perhaps a little too hard for the average player.
On the other hand, the primary quests are not that hard, so they might keep the other quests somewhat harder.

=HT=Ingram · Apr 14, 2007, 12:38 PM // 12:38

"You mean you have to use your hands??? Thats like a babies toy!!!"
Back to the Future II (1989)
Children of 2015 comment on arcade game Wild Gunmen.

I suppose I can put up with over easy games that play themselves if I can have a hoverboard. But until that time I would prefer a game with some dexterity and challenge required in it thank you...

freekedoutfish · Apr 16, 2007, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lydz

/signed

Some of these quests are simply too hard. My m8 was stuck for 2 weeks at the Gate of Madness. Man...is that a FRUSTRATING mission!

The missions arent an issue. Missions are meant to be hard to complete. Especially the end-game ones.

Its the ROT instance areas that are frustrating, because the quests are too intense for casual players want a quick "get-in and out" game.

Non-elite quest areas shouldnt be difficult to the point of frustrating.

Missions and elite-areas can though.

freekedoutfish · Apr 16, 2007, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleetDragon

Alright guys lets sit back and look at the majority of players who play this game. If you take for example that this game has been out for about two years you can see why a trend of increasing difficulty is needed, I would say that about 50% of the population of Guild Wars has all 3 Campigns, now I will give you the BOTD (Benefit of the doubt) that maybe some own just one and/or two. However with that being said the games themselves have seemed to up the ante, this most likely being because ANET believes in a balance (Thats why they change skills and aspects of the game all the time.). Many think that ANET has properly balanced certain missions but you must always consider where these missions are and whether "you" think they were suppose to be easy.If you think there should be an easy mode its because you are lazy they are meant to be a challenge. You may stress that its just a game to have fun, yes that is true, but please... If you look at the complaint list so far we have Gate of Madness, ROT, and DOA. Gate of Madness I admit is no walk in the park but with the correct timing and getting the bonus.(***Most impotantly) it isnt terribly hard (Me and a friend did it with 6 other heros).As far as ROT goes if you cant do it, dont do its as simple as that. And lastly DoA besides the fact that it is whether you like it or not an Elite End of game Area, it is meant to be hard because of the rewards you recieve. If you find missions in Guild Wars too hard, perhaps your not thinking about the mission. Many people have accomplished these feats already and usually offer advice on it, my suggestion is seek their advice. Guildwiki.org is a great example for help if you cant figure something out. When you sit down and think of how to do stuff it isnt really as hard as you thought. You have realize ANET is not all about seperating good players and bad players they are simply making things more balanced for more effective and fun gameplay. They are not out to get the new players so please get that notion out of your head.

I agree the games should get harder as they go on. But Anet has jumped too far with NF. The first 3/4 of the game are acceptably hard, but then ROT jumps to an almost elite status.

But I think you missed the point slightly. Your saying that the complains have been about Gate of Madness, ROT and DOA being too hard.

No they havent.

The OP to (my understanding) was only complaing that the ROT instance areas are too hard. Something I agree with.

I dont mind the missions and DOA in ROT being hard, because their meant to be. But there is a difference between missions, elite zones and instances.

The difference is that the instance area of ROT shouldnt be as hard as missions or elite zones. Not when half the quests in there, give very little reward in terms of experience or gold.

Quests are meant to be "pick-up and play". Their not meant to require a perfect PUG which takes 30 minutes to form.

Its understandable to have missions and elite areas be hard, and to spend 30 minutes creating a party to do them, because their meant to be intense and time-consuming and you get a huge benefit from doing them.

But to expect people to spend ages forming the perfect PUG group, simply to complete a quest which gives a pointless 5000 xp is out of the question.

And it isnt a question of ignoring the ROT if you find it too hard, because you have to move through it to complete the game. And just moving through it can be frustrating because of the over-whelming mob numbers at some parts.

Anet went too far with ROT and the difficulty shot up too much in NF from the non-ROT area to ROT.

Master Sword Keeper · Apr 16, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Deleet is a basher and gripist.

freekedoutfish has actually got some points worth taking into account. If you havn't actually player guild wars for a year. You automatically become a noob in L33tist's players like Deleet. Remember if you bump up the difficulty and new players start playing only to get wiped out. ANET could stand to lose more profit then gain. Before making assumptions and false flaws in every post you see...Think of the REAL-LIFE economy. Gaile's intentions are to influence a younger more battle-ready croud. They will begin fighting at a Novice-amatuer level...Once they have mastered it they can attempt hard mode and work their way up. Deleet you are indeed a basher. I play both ROT,DOA,FOW,UW and so on. Including areas no-one can farm. I got my ways

As for skill buffs, nerfs and mods. I prefer not to take the one damn skill everytime...I prefer dif builds to make the game more interesting. I won't follow a trend because some L33tist set it. I'm setting my own.

Nuff Sed.

Difficulty: EASY
Finish the game: HARd

Darksun · Apr 16, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

The only reason you're not the only one who thinkins this way is because 95% of the people who play this game, suck at it.

It's not hard.

Henchmen + Heroes > people.

lern2play

I don't think people SUCK at it. Just because I can get expert in the RoT missions with henchmen doesn't mean it's easy.

wilebill · Apr 16, 2007, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Nothing wrong with a game having some difficult areas. I myself happen to think that maps with penalties are a poor idea, though.

When Prophecies first came out, it was a fairly hard game for those new to online gaming. It was not uncommon to hear of players being stuck at one of the desert missions for days!

Keithark · Apr 16, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by stueyman2099

moar difficulty plx. PvE are is too ez

Another hooked on phonics tape lost in the mail....

Dougal Kronik · Apr 16, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Lower the difficulty to the equivalent of Perdition Rock or Snake Dance of all high end explorable areas in Cantha and Elona.

Keep the Elite areas and missions as they are.

eggs0wn · Apr 16, 2007, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Why PvE is easy: You know actualy what you are up agaisnt. Ok, you go in the first time and get slaughter. Well then you should see what happened and what skills the monsters used. Then change you build accordingly.

lern2adapt pl0x

Dubby · Apr 16, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

Another hooked on phonics tape lost in the mail....

Maybe, but he/she is absolutely right.

PvE

IS TOO EASY

Yall say nightfall is the hardest. I beat, and got protector, on it FIRST. Now I'm going for cantha, then I'm going for prophecies.

Seriously, and I mean honestly seriously, PvP is much, much harder then PvE.

I welcome hard mode.

And don't change the difficulty of the game right now, it's fine.

Gear853 · Apr 16, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

i personally think the game is just fine as it is... if it's too easy it won't be as fun. no challenge = boredom.

Age · Apr 16, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

This would be great to ease up on all the missions as some ppl have more than 1 account and would like to get all their chat through all campaigns and eventually Protector status.I tend to look at the missions in the Maguuma Jungle that practically have no one around just dead.

kazjun · Apr 16, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Pve is already easy, and when hard/normal mode comes along it'll get easier as long as you don't choose hard mode. Course, if you choose hard mode and then complain that its too hard, well, that'll be your own fault.

Swift Thief · Apr 16, 2007, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Gaile already announced they will. o_O

freekedoutfish · Apr 17, 2007, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

I don't think people SUCK at it. Just because I can get expert in the RoT missions with henchmen doesn't mean it's easy.

Darksun is right.

But the other poster is right too.

PvE isnt hard and it isnt impossible. It can be done with henches and heroes. I agree that people who say PvE hard, just need to buckle down and it can be done.

But there are aspects of the game which are frustrating and unsatisfying to play.

Such areas are ROT.

As I and others have said, its great to add hard areas. But unless the rewards meet the challenge, its not satisfying and its like a slap in the face.

The rewards for ROT quests, including supposed master quests, are tiny.

They dont meet the difficulty of the task you do. So either make the rewards worth the quest and give alot more gold to make it worth the frustration. Or reduce the mob numbers and make the area easier.

ROT and the other PvE is not hard. Certain parts are just frustratingly badly designed.

ROT being a perfect example because Anet clearly just crambed as many creatures and mobs as they could into one area and expect us to run head first into them.

There was no design to it.
There was no thinking about it.

They just put alot of creature, heavy mobs into a small area and expect you to take them on. Something which you should only find in an elite area, because such areas only satisfy the hack-and-slash lovers.

There is no intelligence and thinking needed for ROT, its purely hack-and-slash and prey to god that you do enough damage.

PvE should be intelligent mobs, and stratergy.

Elite zones should be insain numbers of creatures and hack-and-slash fest.

ROT is more an elite zone, which alienates the casual player who likes to do a non-stressfull guest.

Wild Karrde · Apr 18, 2007, 01:29 PM // 13:29

I got an idea, How about all you arse holes who are posting "PvE too hard? LMAO" or "quite whining, learn to play", stop being so ignorant, spiteful and cocky. The people who posted it was too hard either havent learned to do every thing perfect, or are just for some reason struggling, so instead of being total dick weeds, why dont you GIVE SOME TIPS INSTEAD OF TRYING TO MAKE PEOPLE FEEL STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know its hard for you cocky bashers to understand, but not everyone is great at the game, and people do struggle. So telling them they need to stop playing is just stupid, quit being arse holes and lend a hand, and get off your high horse.

Being 1337 in a video game and letting EVRYONE know about it by bragging is like being the best in the special olympics, you may win at everything but your STILL RETARDED.

DeXyre · Apr 18, 2007, 01:57 PM // 13:57

The best tip has already been given (adapt) and for specific area's I'm pretty sure there are more specific tips around...
I gave some hero/hench build tips/setups to a couple of people in the guild for area's they had problems in, and afterwards it went way more smooth...
RoT was pretty annoying at the start, I have to admit, but after some minor changes everything went alright (this didn't mean I cut right through it, but except for the occasional blunder, it wasn't really challenging either any more...)